Bless Your Heart, You Don't Know How to Hire

Six rounds of interviews for a $75K role? A take-home assignment that's suspiciously identical to their actual Q3 project? A "culture fit coffee" that somehow turns into round seven? If your job search has been making you feel like you're losing your mind, here's the truth nobody at these companies will tell you: it's not you. It's them.

This week, Lauren goes scorched earth on the hiring manager industrial complex, why so many interview processes have ballooned out of control, the five red flags that prove a hiring manager doesn't know what they're doing, and the new rule you need to start enforcing on your own job search.

In this episode:

• The 5 signs your hiring manager has no idea what they want
• Why "I'll know when I meet the right person" is not a hiring strategy
• One listener's 7-round nightmare (and how it ended)
• A copy-paste email script for when they spring "just one more round" on you
• The Three-Round Rule — your new ceiling on interview loops

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay, y'all. So we're gonna skip the proper introduction this time because I'm irritated. I was sitting at my kitchen table on Sunday morning and I was trying to drink my coffee, but it had pretty much already gone cold because I was scrolling LinkedIn, right? Well, my friend sends me a screenshot. It's a job posting, which given what I do in HR, not crazy. Except for the fact that it was for a mid-level marketing role for $75,000, which again, not crazy, but it had a six-round interview process. Six a phone screen, a hiring manager call, a peer panel, a skills assessment, which is a term I want to legally retire, but that's a different story, a presentation to leadership, and then a final culture fit conversation for $75,000. Now, y'all know me. I've spent almost like 12 years in HR at this point. I've sat on the hiring side of the table more times than I can count. And I'll tell you something. There is no role on the planet under the C-suite that requires six rounds of interviews. None none. If your process has six rounds, what you actually have is a hiring manager who doesn't know what they want, a recruiter who's afraid to ask more questions, and a candidate who's being held hostage by a calendar invite. They're just waiting to see what's going to happen. So I sent my friend back like a single gift, the one of Reese Witherspin Illegally Blonde, where she's like, what, like it's hard? Because hiring is not hard. Hiring is just unfamiliar to most people that are doing it. And I sat there watching my coffee get colder, and I couldn't help but wonder like, when did hiring become a six-act Broadway production directed by someone who's never seen a play before? So, y'all, welcome back. We're gonna really dive into it today because this is a pet peeve of mine. And I just I can't today. So let's get into it. I'm gonna lay out the actual problem because I think a lot of you are gaslighting yourselves into believing that the modern day hiring process is normal and it's not. It's pretty unhinged at this point, and here's why. Most hiring managers, and I am saying this with my whole chest and 12 years of receipts. Most hiring managers have never actually been formally trained on how to hire. Now, that's not to say some have. Remember, I said most. They have been promoted into a role that requires them to bring people onto their team. And somehow along the way, somebody handed them a job description that was written in 2016 and said, good luck, that's it. That's the training that a lot of them get. So what do they do? They don't have the experience, they get handed the responsibility, they overcorrect, they pile on rounds of interviews, they invent assessments, they bring in seven panelists because if they think they bring in more people, surely someone will spot a red flag in this candidate, right? They ask the candidate to build them a 30, 60, 90 day plan before the candidate has actually been hired or has access to internal data or has any context for what the team is actually doing. So that's not a hiring process. We've now entered into like a hostage situation with good branding, all right? And I really want y'all to watch out for the most common signs that a hiring manager doesn't actually know what they're doing. And I want you to listen close because once you can spot these, the entire process stops feeling like a personal attack against you. And maybe we'll help you realize that they just got thrown into a position they probably weren't ready for. So, sign number one, they very much use like vibes-based hiring. That's the manager who says, I'll just know when I meet the right person. And bless your sweet little heart. No, you won't. Because what you know is whether the person reminds you of yourself, your favorite coworker, your nephew, someone you know that's relatable, you're looking for comfort. And comfort is not a hiring criteria. So it's a personality preference, is what you're looking for. And by the way, that is actually how teams stay very kind of mediocre for a really long time because the hiring manager isn't using an actual process based in like, can this person do the good job? Are we using good decision-making skills? They're just like, you know what, I like them or I don't. And you're getting bad vibes at that point. Okay. Sign number two, they move the goalpost. This is when they do one round of interviews and they say, We love you. Can you come back for round two? And then you go to round two and they say, Great, can you come back for round three to meet someone new? And by round four, they're saying, actually, we're not sure if we need this role. Can you wait a couple weeks? That's not them being thorough. They're they're being indecisive. They don't actually know. And it's a giant red flag for the candidate because the company should be organized. You should know what you're looking for before you ever even post that job, you should know exactly the timeline, the budget, everything. I could go on and on, but it drives me crazy. Sign number three, the take-home assignment that is suspiciously specific. Let me tell you what I mean. Okay, if the assignment is, hey, can you build us a content strategy for our Q3 product launch with deliverables by Friday? Y'all, that's just a project that they want done internally. It's a real project. And sometimes they will bring in multiple applicants to get them to do the same thing and then pick the best one, and they're not actually hiring, they're just getting free labor. A skills assessment should be generic. I'm gonna say that one more time. It should be generic. It shouldn't feel like you're doing very specific work for that specific company. It should test your skill level, not actually solve a current business problem. There's a difference between the two of those things. And that leads us into sign number four. The personality test that has nothing to do with your job. Now, a lot of people are gonna get upset about this one. The very vibes like hiring managers and things that are convinced that Geminis and Scorpios make better secretaries and all sorts of things. Okay. These tools have legitimate uses inside an employed team, but they shouldn't be gatekeepers to your teams, if that makes sense. Is a if a company is like screening you out based on your personality assessment for a role you otherwise qualified for, that company has a hiring manager who's hiding behind a quiz because they don't trust their own judgment. They're basically trying to make that personality quiz do the hard lifting when it comes to hiring because they either don't want to hurt people's feelings or they don't know how to make a decision. And then there's sign five, the loop that doesn't end. Six rounds, eight rounds, twelve rounds, which I have personally witnessed. The highest I ever actually saw was 18 and it was a catastrophe. And don't worry, I fixed it. And I'm, I mean, I really wanted to call like the FBI and be like, there's criminal things happening here. This is too much time being wasted. The number of interview rounds is proportional to how much the hiring managers trust their own judgment. So the more rounds they require, the less likely it is they know what they're doing. Now, let's answer the big question around this. Why does that happen? Why are so many hiring managers operating like that? And honestly, it's a few reasons. One, because they're scared. They're scared of making a bad hire, scared of getting blamed, scared of being told they didn't do enough due diligence in the hiring process. And so they do too much because they feel safer than, you know, kind of they have something to blame it on. If someone comes to them and says, oh my gosh, that employee was terrible, they kind of have, you know, that kind of feeling of like, well, it wasn't just my decision. We use this 1200-step process to make this decision. So it can't possibly just be me. So it's kind of like a safety for them. And then two, their HR team isn't pushing back on them. A good HR partner, and I say this as one for a lot of companies, a good HR partner will sit down with the hiring manager and say, hey, three rounds is enough. We're gonna assess this thing, this thing, and this thing at each step. Here's our scorecards, here's what we're gonna use. Like, there should be a well-thought-out process. And we're gonna decide for them, like at what stage are we making a decision? And after this, we're not adding rounds, okay? Because a bad HR person is gonna say, Yeah, you can add another round. Let's go, like, and then it just gets out of control. And then there's three, and this is the spassi one, okay? They don't actually know what the role is. That's why that's why they operate like that. They wrote the job description by copying and pasting a posting from another company, and yes, I've seen that happen. They don't know the day-to-day for that position necessarily. They don't know what the deliverables are, they don't know what success looks like in 90 days. So they just pile on rounds because they're hoping somebody else will figure it out for them. So when you, the candidate, are sitting there going, why is this so hard? Why do they need to talk to me five more times? Why have I been on this loop for nine weeks straight? The answer is not that you're doing something wrong. The answer is that the person hiring you doesn't know what they're doing and they're letting their incompetence become your problem. So let's transition a little bit into what you can actually do about it. So I'm actually gonna bring in a little horror story of the week. And this one, this one caused me some issues, y'all. Sometimes I have to back my tongue a little bit. And this one comes from a listener, and I don't use real names here, so we're gonna call her Britney because that seems like a name that deserves something good to happen to her. So Britney applied for a senior account manager role at a tech company. The salary range was 95 to 115,000. Round one was a 30-minute recruiter screen. Fine, normal for me. Round two, hiring manager call, 45 minutes. Again, fine, I can kind of see the value. Round three, panel interview with three people, an hour long. Now we're getting a little, we're getting a little out there, but maybe I could accept it. Round four was a take-home case study. They gave her a real client situation and asked her to build out a 90-day account plan. She spent 14 hours on it. 14, okay. And then round five, present the case study to a panel of five people, including two executives. And then round six, a culture fit, coffee chat. Okay. She wanted to have coffee with the team. And then round seven, y'all, round seven was a meeting with the CEO for a senior account manager role, not a director, one, not a VIP, a senior account role. Like after round seven, they also ghosted her for three weeks. Then the recruiter came back and said, and I am quoting from what this person sent in, we've decided to put the role on hold while we reassess our hiring needs. Brittany spent 20 plus hours on this process and they put it on hold. I, you know, sometimes I'm glad y'all can't see my face because my face has subtitles for these situations. Listen, if you are a candidate and a company puts you more, puts you through like more three, four rounds of interviews, you have every right to ask, what is the timeline for this decision and what specifically will be evaluated in each stage? Call them out respectfully and professionally, of course. And if they can't tell you they don't know, and if they don't know, they're wasting your time. Now use your best assessment, kind of based on what you need, if you really want to work there, to kind of go from there. And Brittany, if you're listening, I'm proud of you for getting out. And I hope your next role is at a company that knows what they want. And to the company that did that to her, bless your heart as disrespectfully as possible. Genuinely. And while we're on the subject of kind of answering people, I actually got a question this week that I think a lot of you might be sitting with. So I'm gonna read this one kind of out loud from my DMs. This one comes from a listener in Dallas. Lauren, I'm in round four of an interview process, and they just told me there will be a fifth round, which is a working session, quotes, with the team. I've already done a phone screen, a hiring manager interview, a panel, and a skills test. At what point is it okay to just pull out of the process? I really want this job, but I'm starting to feel like a circus monkey. Okay, first of all, the little circus monkey is sending me a little bit today, because it's the most accurate phrase I've heard like all month. Second, here's your permission slip if you want it. You're allowed to opt out of an interview process at any point as a candidate. And you do not have to finish the loop just because they started it. So, because it it's costing you money at this point. It may be keeping you from other jobs as well. So here's what I want you to do though. You are allowed to opt out, but but let's do it the right way. Send a clarifying email first. Just say hi, you know, the recruiter's name, whoever you've been in contact with. Thank you for the update on the next round. Before I confirm, I'd love to understand what specifically will be evaluated in this working session that already hasn't been assessed in the previous four rounds? And what is the timeline for a final decision after that stage? Now, when you do something like that, three things are gonna happen. Maybe. I mean, everybody's different, but this is just my experience. One, they'll give you a real answer and you'll feel better and you'll do the working session and everything will be fine. Two, they'll give you a wishy-washy answer, like, we just want to see how you collaborate. In which case, honey, that's a no. That's a no because they don't even know what they're testing. Or they're hiding it from you, which is even shadier. It that we don't need to hide it at that process unless this is a top secret mission for the Avengers and there's an NDA involved. And then three, they will be shook, shook ith that you asked. And that response itself will tell you everything you need to know about the company. That they should be able to tell you. I mean, if you're reaching out to them professionally, asking professional questions for them to respond professionally to, there's zero reason for them to be shook ith. So pay attention to that because you're not a circus monkey, you're a professional if also evaluating that employer. The interview process goes both ways, and I need everybody to remember that, including people at those companies, and it always has. And to the rest of you listening, write that script down or save it. Maybe I'll put it in a blog this week at careerbloomsolutions.com. You know, kind of just remember that it's okay to reach out to them and say, hey, what exactly is going on here? And what's my timeline? Like you could be doing other things. And then we're kind of kind of in doubt, sort of, with a tip of the week. And I thought about this one for a really long time, but I'm gonna call this one the three-round rule. Here's your new policy on job hunting. Effective immediately. Okay, no more than three substantive, okay, interview rounds for any role under a director, four rounds for director level, five for VP and above. Once you get kind of to CEO, that's a whole kind of different ballgame. And it really depends on the industry and things like that. But the ceiling is five. There's zero reason to go above that. Anything beyond that, you have my full permission out loud, okay? To ask them specifically what they're out evaluating. And then let me know because I have questions. Now, substance is kind of, I want you to kind of think about that when we ask for things. When I say interview rounds for certain roles, a 15-minute scheduling call with a recruiter is not a round of an interview. So, like when I say that it needs to have substance to be counted as an interview, a casual coffee with a future peer is not an interview. A 60-minute panel interview is a round of an interview. So a take-home assessment is a round, a presentation is a round. So here's why this rule kind of matters for me of only having three of those. Most hiring managers, when forced to articulate what each round is for, will actually realize that they don't need them. So once we kind of break down with them, like, hey, what are you actually looking at in these rounds? Uh, a lot of them don't know. The rounds basically exist for a lot of companies because no one ever stopped them to say, what are we actually testing for here? The minute that you ask that question, a lot of these processes start to lighten up with my clients. So when a recruiter tells you the process, you have my permission again to ask them, can you walk me through what's evaluated in each stage? I mean, you're genuinely asking a question also. So, I mean, if they refuse to answer, it's a little strange to not let an applicant be fully prepared. Like you're just trying to be prepared for what they're asking for. If they can answer, beautiful. If they stumble, you've already kind of learned something about that company. I mean, this is their process. They should be able to back it up at all times. So save your time, y'all. You have a finite amount of time. So don't spend it being a research subject for a company that can't make up its mind. And I wouldn't be everyone's new favorite career coach if I didn't give you like a little bit of homework. Okay. I want you to go look at any active interview process that you're currently in or the last one you completed, even at your current job if you're listening to this fully employed. I want you to map out the rounds. Just write them down. What was round one? What was round two? And so on. And then I want you to ask yourself for each round what you think was being evaluated that couldn't have been evaluated in the previous round. Like if we're gonna have multiple, they need to have steps or do different things. And if you can't answer that, chances are the company probably can't either. And you know, it there's something to be said about how just from the very beginning, like looking out for how a company operates. If they can't onboard people well, like strategically, time-saving wise, it just it just doesn't usually bode well. It's a sign, I'll put it that way. And okay, before I go, here's what I want you to take from today. All right, the job search is hard, but a lot of what makes it feel hard is not that you're inadequate as a job seeker, it's sometimes the inadequacy of the people on the other side of the process. Okay. Hiring is a skill, it's it's a skill just like a lot of other skills that people learn. It has to be taught. And most companies do not teach it, they kind of wing it. So when you find yourself in round five of an interview loop, asking yourself if you're losing your mind, you are not. You are saying their process is broken, and you are allowed to name that out loud, and you're allowed to walk away when it feels like too much. Okay. So I just want you all to remember that. And I also want you to remember that your career is your responsibility. So if you want things to happen with it, you have to water it. You get it together.